"I Believe in the Resurrection of the Body"

Whenever one discusses the soul and life after death, sooner or later someone will point out that “Christians don’t believe in the immortality of the soul, they believe in the resurrection of the body.”

I think any objective observer would concede that biblical studies and theology are no more immune to fads and trends than other intellectual disciplines, and for some time now it has been fashionable to downplay the Hellenistic elements in Christianity and emphasize the Judaic ones. No doubt there are sound intellectual reasons for this, but it also seems to be driven in part by a political agenda. After all, Hellenism (and especially Greek philosophy) is identified with bad, oppressive, logocentric, patriarchal Western civilization. Whereas Judaism can easily be identified with oppressed and marginalized people, and so (therefore?) Jewish metaphysics is deemed somehow superior or more life-affirming than those wicked old Greeks. Judaism, so it goes, has a holisitic outlook that affirms the body and the created world, while Greek philosophy sought the disembodied soul’s flight from the world.

Anyway, let it be stipulated that Christians do indeed believe in the resurrection of the body. I mean, it’s right there in the creed and everything, and when Jesus appeared to the disciples after his Resurrection he made a point of letting them know that he was not a ghost or a disembodied soul, even going so far as to eat fish and invite Thomas to poke around in his innards. So there you go.

The emphasis on the resurrection of the body is also often held to be more compatible with the “modern scientific worldview,” and especially neuroscience which clearly shows the strong connection between our conscious states and the physical states of our brains.

However, troubles begin when one tries to seriously think about what is involved in the notion of resurrection. I take it that no one today adheres to the old-fashioned view that God will literally raise my physical body out of the grave, a la Night of the Living Dead (except happier). Obviously, the bodies of millions of people no longer exist except as particles dispersed throughout the world (many of them, no doubt, presently lodged in other, currently existing bodies).

So, it seems we’re driven to the now popular view that God will, at the Last Judgment or immediately after death, provide me with a “new” body. (Augustine said that our resurrection bodies would be our bodies at the age of 30 – our supposed physical peak – but I’m hoping for one with more hair.) The idea that God gives us new imperishable bodies also seems consistent with Paul’s talk of a “spiritual body.”

But, who is the “me” that receives the new body? It seems that we need some principle of continuity between my earthly life and the resurrection life that ensures that it is I who experiences that life. This is where most Christian philosophers have suggested that the soul is necessary. Since the soul is the essential part of me that bears my identity, when the soul is clothed with the glorious resurrection body, it is the same person who lived on earth.

Some philosophers who deny the existence of a soul and take a materialistic view of the human person (i.e. that humans are composed entirely of material parts) have suggested that God could at the resurrection simply “re-create” me anew. That is, God would create a person who is identical with me in certain crucial respects (memory, personality, etc.) and this person simply is me resurrected.

The obvious rejoinder is that such a person would not in fact be me, but would simply be a copy of me (though presumably different in important respects, such as having an immortal body). Intuitively, this seems to me like a strong objection. Imagine that instead of waiting until I died, God were to create such a person now in heaven. Would that person be me? I think we’d all say not – I’m me! But suppose that I then died, would that person then become me? But why would that person now have a claim to be me, rather than a person who merely resembles me in certain important ways? But if that’s the case, then what reason do we have to think that a resurrection copy of me created after I died is me? I think this shows that our sense of personal identity is strongly bound up with the notion that there needs to be some kind of substantial continuity between my earthly self and my resurrection self.

Some non-dualist Christian philosophers have seen the force of this objection and have looked for ways to introduce some principle of continuity between the earthly self and the resurrection self. Peter van Inwagen has gone so far as to speculate that at death God miraculously transports our cerebral cortex (or however much of it that would be necessary to ensure continuity of identity) to heaven, while replacing it with a duplicate! (In case anyone were to look in the grave, God wouldn’t want them to discover a missing cerebral cortex!) This looks a little desperate, and may incline one to think that there’s something to be said for dualism after all, at least from a theological perspective.

I don’t mean to suggest that any particular view of the mind-body relation is obligatory for Christian theology. Obviously the whole topic is rife with mystery, and there’s much that we can’t know. But there are good reasons, I think, for saying that appeals to the resurrection of the body, however essential, don’t necessarily settle the issue of the existence of the soul.

Comments

23 responses to “"I Believe in the Resurrection of the Body"”

  1. Marcus

    (a) There are lots of texts in the NT that make better sense with a metaphysic of souls than without. Even, sometimes, words of Jesus.

    (b) Jewish patriarchy was far less liberal wrt the position of women than Roman.

    (c) It’s clear Paul bought into a very literal view of resurrection, and a, equally literal view of an eventual End of the World. Now, I’m not saying it can’t be done, bit it surely would be at least very awkward to accept such an eschatology without accepting some equally literal view of the Fall of Man.

    (d) There is much to be said for more Greek in our theology, and less Hebraism.

  2. Camassia

    From the people I know who are in the Judaicizing fashion, I don’t think it has anything to do with political correctness. If anything, it seems fueled partly by anti-modernism, since modernity came in on the back of revived Greek philosophy. It also seems popular among theologians from low-church traditions, who are looking for an authetic New Testament (and therefore Jewish) Christianity. Also, the whole soul-body thing is driven partly in reaction to a modern attitude that the body is your possession to do with as you see fit, rather like your car, rather than as a temple of God. (I gather that’s why the late Pope was so insistent on the point, even though Catholicism has been more influenced by Hellenism than practically any church.)

    Personally, I don’t have a problem with thinking of a re-created copy of myself as “me.” At least, it’s less of a problem than thinking of a bodiless blob of consciousness as “me.” If God could once pull together a bunch of pre-existing molecules and declare that this is Camassia, he can do it again and it would still count. In between now and then I would exist in the mind and memory of God, which is ultimately where I came from anyway.

  3. Lee

    Well, I certainly don’t want to slight the importance of recovering & emphasizing the Jewish context of Christianity. In light of history, if for no other reason, it’s vastly important. And no one, I think, would accuse someone like, say, N. T. Wright of buckling to political correctness.

    Still, I do think the Greeks have gotten a pretty unfair shake in the last several decades. The NT, at the very least, has some fairly prominent Hellenistic elements, and to try and strip those away to reveal some alleged pure Jewish Christianity commits the same mistake that the historical Jesus types commit, IMO (i.e. abandoning the canonical principle).

    All that said, I think Camassia you put your finger on the chief bone of contention – it comes down to our intuitions about things like what constitutes our personal identity. There’s no clear way that I’m aware of for adjudicating between conflicting intuitions (I’ve often thought this may be the Achilles’ heel of analytic philosophy).

    Plus, as a Lutheran I should actually be favorably disposed to situations where something is the case simply in virtue of God declaring it to be the case!

  4. Joshie

    Marcus, I know it is beside the point but your item b is not correct. If you look at the description of the ideal wife in Proverbs and compare it to Roman views of women in the sources and inscriptions you will see a much lower view of women in the Roman writings than the Jewish and the Greek. The Roman pater basically owned his female relatives and had the power of life and death over them. Roman women, especially lower-class ones were basically slaves to their husbands and had much more limited rights than Jewish or even Greek ones.

    I think we need to distinguish between the academic moves toward a more Jewish emphasis in NT studies from the sort of pentecostal emphasis on Judaism en vogue now. The first is motivated by a desire to counter balance the over-emphasis on Greco-Roman perspectives on the NT over the past 200 years, expecially in German cicles, much of it tinged with anti-semitism.

    The other is motivated by the strong empahasis on the Jews and Israel in particular in many forms of pentecostal dispensationalism. We have a case of what biologists call “convergant evolution” here, two unrelated creatures conicidentally taking a similar form, like the ostrich and the emu. I doubt we will ever see E.P. Sanders blowing a shofar and wearing a jeweled breastplate on TBN.

    All that said, while I have much sympathy for the Sanders-school of emphasizing Jesus’ Jewishness (it was the school in which I was largely educated), I doubt it is possible to at this point to disengage the Greek elements from the Hebrew elements in Christianity. Hellenism had such an enormous impact on Second-Temple Judaism itself (particularly Stocism), that attempting to unravel the Greek from the Jewish would be an excercise in futility.

    This goes double for the Christian tradition. The earliest church fathers from Augustine and Athanasius to Origen to Justin Martyr, Paul, and argueably Jesus were Greek speakers and by the very nature of that fact, spoke of the world in greek terms, using words like logos, psyche, etc. I would argue that for Paul the immortality of the soul is assumed, as it is in Justin and his theological descendents.

    But just because we belive in a soul, that doesn’t mean we need to have a sharp distinction between body and soul. In the same way Christ has both human and divine natures but only is not two persons in the same body or one a divine spirit in a shell of a body. Body and soul must be closely united in the human person or we fall into heresy or worse.

  5. Lee

    I think this is the third time I’ve mentioned this book, but Cooper’s “Body, Soul & Life Everlasting” tries to sketch exactly the kind of position you describe, Josh. He argues that the sould is presupposed by many biblical statements, but says that what’s needed is a “holisitic dualism” – one that sees the total human person as a combination of body and soul. He then describes the positions of various people who he thinks take such a view (incl. Richard Swinburne, John Paul II, and the Dutch calvinist philosopher Herman Dooyeweerd).

  6. Joshie

    putting it on the amazon wishlist as we speak! thanks!

  7. Lee

    Also, Marcus I’m not really sure why you think that a “literal” resurrection requires a “literal” fall. Of course, we would have to specify what we mean by “literal” here. I think Paul’s talk of a “spiritual body” indicates that he thought the Resurrection would be different in kind from the existence we presently enjoy. Or, do you mean to refer to the fact that he thought it would take place in our current space-time world? (Or, maybe better, that it would involved an “inbreaking” of God’s new reality into the present world)

    Regarding the fall, some people have argued that even if we reject a literal reading of the story of the Fall, we still may want to see it as an account (albeit a mythologized one) of an actual historical event. I.e. that there was a point in historical time where early humanity “fell” away from a primordial experience of, and obedience to, God. I for one am not sure how much of this can be rendered consistent with what we know (or think we know) about evolutionary history, though.

  8. Camassia

    Yes, in case I wasn’t clear, I agree that the New Testament already has Hellenic influences. Maybe a better way of putting it is that the theologians have been trying to make their systematics more Jesus-centric. Basically, instead of trying to build a cosmology that seems to make sense to you and fit Jesus into it, start with Jesus and build outward from there. And what do we know about Jesus? Well, for one, he was Jewish, and claimed to be the Jewish Messiah. Unless you believe the Gnostic Gospels’ account of him secretly preaching mystic Platonism to his inner circle, that seems a lot more fundamental to understanding him than Greek philosophy. (Although, as Joshie says, Hellenism had already influenced Judaism at that point, along with Zoroastrianism and a few other things…)

  9. Marcus

    Do I mean “literal” literally, do you mean?

    Hmm. Well, literally enough for us to have a set of first parents who opposed God’s will, in immediate punishment for which the whole Creation changed, and death came into the world for us all.

    Jesus’ death on the cross was the beginning of the end of the reign of sin and death, and his resurrection was a pointer to what will happen for all of those who love him who will have died before he comes again.

    Once the dust settles, the elect will continue with Jesus in a redeemed world from which death has again been driven out, and He will live and reign with them forever and ever.

    Remember the chorus?

    Anyway, for the detail I suppose you would need to consult a defender of biblical Creationism. One of those people who insist on a literal interpretation of Genesis, you know. It isn’t my personal view.

    In the end, I don’t know how literal they want to be about God walking in the garden, or being suprised, etc. All the same, pretty literal, I think.

    As I said, though. It’s not my own view.

    But it has certainly been the view of lots of others. Read any Milton, lately?

  10. Lee

    Camassia, I agree with you that Jesus’ essential Jewishness is crucially important to understanding him & his mission (I think people like NT Wright – I haven’t read Sanders – are right about this). Nor do I think Christians are wedded per se to the doctrines of Greek philosophy. Luther, for instance, was unstinting in his criticism of theologians who insisted in thinking “in the way of Aristotle.”

    All that said, what makes me nervous is when “historical Jesus” questers (and I don’t know if this overlaps with the theologians you’re referring to or not) try to make a historically reconstructed Jesus the basis of faith. Often this takes the form of opposing “Jesus” to Paul or the church. But in reality it opposes a historically reconstructed Jesus (e.g. Borg’s Jesus or Crossan’s Jesus) to Paul, etc.

    Which is not to say that I have a problem with historical Jesus research per se, but I don’t think it can replace the basic kerygma of the NT as the lodestar of Christian faith.

  11. jack perry

    I think that marcus meant “Hellenistic” instead of Roman — after all, that was what the original post was about — and I’m going to argue in his favor under that assumption. I have to agree with him on Jewish Patriarchy. Pointing to a scripture in the Bible is one thing (even granting the dubious notion that the Jews, unlike any other religious people, were impeccably observant of their scriptures) but how many women priests existed in Jewish lands, ever? how many women intellectuals existed and prospered? how many images of the independent, assertive, feminine divine did Jews have?

    I’m not saying it’s bad or good; I’m just pointing out that women had opportunities in the Hellenistic lands that they did not have, and could not hope to have, in Judaism. Marcus has a point.

  12. Marcus

    If the Greek elements are to be driven out in favor of the “Jewish,” do we then have to purge the Jewish of the Iranian elements? And maybe even of the Egyptian? So how much would be left, eh, of the religion of the Law and the Prophets?

  13. Marcus

    BTW, Mr. Perry, the Romans, especially. Do a little surfing here, a little reading there, and it emerges that, among classicists, the view is common that women enjoyed a better position among the Romans than among most in the ancient world. Even the Greeks kept women cooped up as far as they could, except for the gilded whores.

    But, to return to my point just above, not a whole lot is left of Judaism if we peel out the Iranian and Egyptian elements. And, if we aren’t going to do that, why peel out Hellenism?

    On the other hand, would Hellenism have developed theism without the distinctly Jewish elements of Christianity? Maybe. But maybe not.

  14. Joshie

    Well, I’m sorry but that’s not the case with regards to the role of women in antiquity. I suggest you do both do some more reading.

  15. jack perry

    Hypatia. Cleopatra. Spartan women exercising nude with their men (if you consider that liberal, which many Greeks did).

    Name an example in the Judaic world (or Roman, for that matter) of a practice approaching that sort of liberalism. I’d really like to know.

    I didn’t mean, btw, to suggest that the Romans were less liberal than the Greeks wrt to women. I really don’t know. I simply meant to argue that Hellenistic culture was more libearl than Judaic. Please don’t read into me anything I didn’t actually write!

  16. Joshie

    I really don’t see how what you mention is “liberal”. I really don’t think the term makes much sense at all in this context, frankly. I slso find it a bit disengenious too for the two of you to switch topics from Roman women to Hellenistic women in mid discussion when you realized you don’t know as much about the topic as you thought you did.

    Plus, we are not talking about classical Greek practices here, we are talking about (or at least I thought you two were) culture in the post-Alexander Hellenistic era. Cleopatra was a notable exception but she was just that, the exception. There are many notable Jewish women from the Bible (like Ruth, Esther, Judith, the aforementioned wife described in Proverbs, Jael, Deborah, Prisca the real founder of the Roman church, Phoebe the deaconess in Romans 16) or from elsewhere that I could cite but I’m not talking about famous women. I’m talking about lower-class women. Everyday people. Please look into it before you lecture me on the kind of stuff I studied for 7 years in school.

  17. jack perry

    I didn’t switch the topic; I kept to the original topic of the post. It was Marcus who switched to Roman times, and I misinterpreted him (and did so openly and candidly). There is nothing at all disingenuous about that, and I consider it rather disingenuous of you to accuse me of pretenses that I don’t have.

    Notice, further, that I didn’t restrict myself to classical Greek; Hypatia and Cleopatra are post-Alexander Greek, and if you want to say that Cleopatra is an exception, then I would rejoin: what exactly do you consider Esther and Ruth to be, the norm? I suppose that bit about Esther being afraid to approach king Ahasuerus was just dramatic tension?

    I have also read up on these things; believe it or not, you’re not the only one to study them, and it’s also been a few years for me. The fact that our teachers had different opinions makes neither of us ignorant.

    Yes, I consider the examples I cited liberal; I don’t consider the examples that you cite as liberal, and I suppose we’ll have to agree to disagree.

  18. jack perry

    “In many foreign cities throughout the Hellenistic world, the Jews formed unified and solid communities; Jewish women enjoyed more rights and autonomy in these communities rather than at home.” (home being “Israel”) Reference

    “Judaism in the first century had emerged from the oriental patriarchal tradition in which women were considered the property of men with no rights, no role in society except childbearing, and no education. In the intertestamental period Judaism was, however, affected by its encounter with hellenism. This produced a double effect. Some schools within Judaism reacted negatively, attempting to reinforce the subordination and seclusion of women in order to safeguard the purity of Judaism against the influence of hellenism. In the diaspora this was often impossible. The Jewish people were living within hellenistic society. There were Jewish women who had acquired wealth and education within that society.(5) Such women were beginning to have a voice in business and politics. Many Jews lived their everyday lives more according to the mores of hellenistic society than those of Torah and Talmud.”
    Reference

    I think it’s safe to say that my understanding is defensible. (I don’t even agree with the overall political aims of the sources I cite, but their facts correspond to what I had studied.) Let me know if you’d like more references.

  19. Joshie

    Sorry but I don’t see how what you’ve quoted supports what you’ve said. If you had read what I said in my first response in this thread you would see that I actually grouped together the Greeks and Jews in the period in question.

    “Liberal” is a modern term and applying it to antiquity is anachronistic. It’s akin to calling Jesus a free-silver democrat. It makes no sense in the context of the period in question.

    You addressed Esther and Ruth, what about the others? Don’t Judith, Deborah and Jael constitute examples of assertive females? Doesn’t Phoebe, Paul’s patron and a deconess in the church in Corinth constitute a good example?

    Furthermore if you read what I wrote (which you have yet to really do) you would notice that I never said those two were the norm, although Ruth was certainly pretty close, and yes she can be used as an example in this period in question because Ruth, Esther and Judith all date to the second temple period, probably to the Hellenistic era.

    I was talking about Romans because Marcus was talking about Romans. You switched to Greeks in order to erect your straw man.

    Before we agree to disagree, we have to be certain as to what we’re agreeing to disagree about. Since you haven’t really acknowledged what I have written we cannot do that yet. Sorry.

  20. jack perry

    Odd, I thought it was clear: you had written, “your item b is not correct.” I am disagreeing with that. I made it clear what the context was, and how I was disagreeing with it.

    As for your complaint about the word “liberal”; I didn’t start using it; Marcus did. If my arguments aren’t in agreement with what Marcus means, I’d like him to correct me, not you. If the word is totally inappropriate, you should have been saying so from the start, rather than arguing on those terms, now trying to change the terms of argument.

    Finally: if you don’t see how my references support what I was saying, then apparently you didn’t read what I said, or you didn’t read the references: “how many women priests existed in Jewish lands, ever? how many women intellectuals existed and prospered? how many images of the independent, assertive, feminine divine did Jews have?” I say that those things demonstrate a liberalism; you have suggested that they don’t. If that’s the case, then we have to agree to disagree. Otherwise, you’re correct; there’s no point in continuing the conversation. The references, however support the arguments implied by my questions, and they also challenge some of your own assertions about the “liberality” (or whatever you want to call it) of women’s life in Judaism.

  21. jack perry

    Incidentally, I didn’t switch to Greeks “to erect a straw man”; I switched to Greeks because I thought Marcus had misspoken. I plainly stated this from the beginning, and I said I was arguing under that assumption. Marcus corrected me, and I admitted that I was talking about something else, and that I was ignorant on that comparison. Why are you so keen to accuse me of subversion, with terms like “disingenuous” and “to erect a straw man”, when I have stated plainly from the beginning what I mean to discuss? and if you have no quarrel with what I mean (as you sometimes suggest), then why do you pursue this with such vehemence?

    As for grouping Jewish and Greek together, you wrote: “especially lower-class [women] were basically slaves to their husbands and had much more limited rights than Jewish or even Greek ones.” Emphasis added to show that they don’t seem grouped “together” to me.

  22. Joshie

    vehemence? you have yet to see me vehement. This is me slightly annoyed.

    Out of respect for Lee and his blog I have chosen not to continue this conversation. I just want to leave you with one Bible verse (maybe while you’re at it you can look up Jael and Deborah). Proverbs 15.32

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